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* Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

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0 Пользователей и 1 Гость читают тему. ответов 29, прочитано 10662 раз
alfal
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #16 : 21.01.2011, 18:36 »

Клапан, управляющий заслонкой, срабатывает при оборотах свыше  5500об/мин перекрывая вакуум в магистрали клапана, в результате заслонка должна открыться
alfal
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #17 : 25.01.2011, 07:37 »

Паша, вот некоторая инфа по адресации VRISа и управления других обслуживающих систем. Лет пять назад серьёзно копался в прошивке, двигал, менял.  Есть ещё где то в архивах на сервере, попытаюсь найти позже.

Well the VRIS tables for the non-ZE KLs looks like this:

00 10 10 10 10 10 10
00 10 10 10 10 10 10
00 00 00 00 10 30 00

As for the fuel maps, which one do you want? The RPM vs LOAD enrichment table is the most useful, but it varies from ROM to ROM so finding it might be a little tricky depending on how your ROM compares to my '93.

20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 24
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2b 2b
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 32 32
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 35 35
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 2a 37 39
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 2c 38 3c
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2c 30 3b 43
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 26 2e 33 41 4f
36 36 37 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 31 37 48 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 20 20 2e 36 3e 4e 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b

And for timing there are a few as well, but I haven't figured out how they are all used. There are tables for RPM, 2 for load, transmission type, coolant temperature, air temperature, etc.

That is because there is no single table for spark. Instead there are a bunch of tables, each of which contributes different factors to a total and the result is then transformed and applied to the output. Without knowing how the values are combined, having the contents of the tables isn't too useful. And having only one or two of the tables is of marginal as well, especially since they are all tuned for the stock engine and most of your engines are not stock. That said, the main load vs RPM table is as follows:

55 7f 9f b5 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ef
70 a3 a7 b5 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ef
70 a3 a7 b0 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ed
70 83 95 9d ab b4 a6 b0 ba c7 c8 ca ce e7
63 70 86 8e 9b a7 9c a5 b0 be c1 c4 c7 e0
56 69 7e 85 92 9c 93 9e a9 b7 ba be c1 d8
4c 63 79 7f 8a 94 8f 9a a4 b1 b1 b8 bb d0
42 61 75 7d 86 8f 8b 97 a1 ac ab b2 b6 c8
38 5f 72 79 82 8d 8a 95 9f aa a8 ac b2 c0
2d 5b 70 77 81 8b 88 94 9d a6 a5 a6 ae ac
22 4f 60 72 7e 88 87 94 9c a0 a0 9e a2 98
22 4d 60 69 6f 84 84 92 92 99 9c 95 95 98
22 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 98
22 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 98
22 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 98

For this table, and the fuel enrichment map above, the dimensions are load and RPM. According to my notes the load is the vertical dimension, and the RPM is the horizontal dimension. There are letters because it is written in base-16 (hexadecimal), as I noted above.

And a coolant temp vs load table for adjusting timing(different ones for ATX vs MTX, this is MTX):

76 76 76 2b 2b 2b 2b
56 56 56 2b 2b 2b 2b
4d 4d 4d 2b 2b 2b 2b
4d 4d 4d 2b 2b 2b 2b
4d 4d 4d 2b 2b 2b 2b
2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b
2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b
2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b
2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b
2b 2b 2b 22 1a 1a 1a
2b 2b 2b 1a 1a 1a 1a

There are another dozen or two tables of various kinds, mostly 1 dimensional but a few more 2D maps. For squirters, considering these tables will be calibrated completely differently from what the MS needs you are probably best off plotting these results and using the shape of the resultant graph to guide your development of your table. The individual values themselves will be completely useless to you

EPROM tuner jam packed with info
________________________________________
Please note: i cannot be held responsible for any use/misuse of the information provided below. before you change anything have a clear understanding about converting hex to decimal. To be able to modify an eprom you will need to remove it from your ECU (soldering/desoldering equipment required), also a burner to program a new EPROM. this is not a process to be rushed! If you are not confident in what you are doing seek help. You can cause a lot of damage if you make a mistake.

an emulator allows you to change all the values in the ECU while driving at the click of a button. i believe MS is only needed on heavily modified or boosted applications. All explanations will be based on the stock KL59 ECU (as that is my ECU), all US eproms should be if not exactly the same then extremely similar. The KL31 (KLZE) maps are in slighly different locations and you will need to look for them yourself to find them (shouldnt be too hard after you have read this).

STEP 1: introduction
Probe eproms are stored on a 256k eprom, you can read the files from your EPROM using a eprom reader (google). most files are usualy saved as a .bin extension and should all be 32KB in size for a 256k eprom. These files contain hex values (0-255 in decimal = 00-FF in hex) there are many simple free programs online available that you can use to modify the values (search "hex editor") any time i use 2 numbers followed by a "H" that means the number is in hexidecimal

now, hidden within all these bytes are many maps for fuel, timing, vris etc and without a clear understanding theres simply nothing you can do to modify anything, below is some of the information you will need, all the map locations and how each of them are used and can be modified, examples of converting a DE ECU to a ZE will be the most usefull and therefore that is what i will use in some ofmy explanations. I will not provide tips on custom tuning as each car is different and will react differently to changes made.

STEP 2: What you need
Ok to get yourself started on TUNING (not just changing from aspec to jspec) you really need an emulator or eprom programmer (emulator is 1000x better) and either a wideband or access to a dyno (personally a dyno gives you a permenant accurate graph that can be better tuned from, my car is yet to be tuned on the dyno. you can also add detenation/knock detection sensors if your changing your timing.

if you want to do it the hard way (may work out cheaper if you have access to this equipment) then buy a reader/burner for reading your stock eprom then you will be able to use that file to change the values as needed. to do so you will need some software as mentioned earlier. then when you have made the changes you can burn the new file onto a 256K eprom and try it out. the problem with this is you either buy lots of chips or use a UV eraser to blank them (EPROMS are UV erasable, EEPROMS are electronically erasable) personally this is a pain especially due to the location of the ECU which is one of the many reasons i chosen the emulator path.

obviously a computer (pretty much anything will do) if your using an emulator a laptop will be the way to go and most new emulators run through USB. so you can mack changes using the laptop while driving (i suggest uploading while stationary for safety reasons, if you know what your doing then its fine to do while driving)


STEP 3: MAP locations and changes

*** VRIS RPM/open & close tables: ***

begining at hex address 00BE (the XX represents hex data bytes inbetween that are ignored, dont change the XX values)
56 XX 68 XX 88 XX C8 (there is also a VRIS rpm value below this but it is not used, its 3CH on the DE)

the hex values represent the rpm accurate to 31.25RPM (trust me you wont need to tune it more accurately then that)
the formula is: RPM = Variable * 31.25 (the variable must be converted to decimal in this formula, you can use windows calculator to covnert this)

the VRIS RPM table looks like the following,

so for the KLDE
bit = rpm
10H = 500
3CH = 1875
56H = 2687.5
68H = 3250
88H = 4250
c8H = 6250

and for the stock KLZE
bit = rpm
xxH = ignore
xxH = ignore
10H = 500
82H = 4062.5
99H = 4781.25
DAH = 6812.5

so if you wanted to change your stock DE points to ZE points you would do the following
change the value in address 00C2H from 68H to 82H
change the value in address 00C4H from 88H to 99H
change the value in address 00C6H from C8H to DAH

guess what? you thaught that was it but your only half way there! you may have changed the RPM values at which they open and close but the ZE reacts differently to throttle position then the DE. theres 1 more step.

VRIS open/close table:
this table is pretty simple, 00H = both VRIS plates closed, 10H means #1 is open, 30H means both are open. there are three lines to the table, each for a certain throttle position.

the table on the DE begins at address 0DBEH

00H 10H 10H 10H 10H 10H 10H
00H 10H 10H 10H 10H 10H 10H
00H 00H 00H 00H 10H 30H 00H

the KLZE looks like this

00H 00H 00H 00H 10H 30H 00H
00H 00H 00H 00H 10H 30H 00H
00H 00H 00H 00H 10H 30H 00H

now as you can see, the ZE table is the same no matter the load. if your getting the hang of things you will notice that each
byte represents the previously set rpm values. so for example on the ZE the last three bytes on the end of the table are:

#1 open at 4000rpm
#2 open at 4800rpm
both close 6800rpm

now there you have it, you've now setup ZE vris on your file

The KLDE RPM vs LOAD enrichment map looks like this: (starting at location 3DDH)
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 24
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2b 2b
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 32 32
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 35 35
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 2a 37 39
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 2c 38 3c
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2c 30 3b 43
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 26 2e 33 41 4f
36 36 37 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 31 37 48 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 20 20 2e 36 3e 4e 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b

note: top left = min load/rpm, bottom right = max load/rpm

*** rev limiter: ***
on the KL07 ECU the rev limiter is at address 6FH
for the KL59 ECU the rev limiter is at address 74H
i believe the rev limiter cuts spark only on a different cyl each time.
there is also a lower limit for hystersis so the limiter must drop below that rpm before it removes the cut, im not sure at this point in time where this is located, i would assume it would be approx 1-200rpm lower then the stock fuel cut.

you can change the limiter by setting the bit as shown below in the table (note any hex value will work the table is just a guide to show the relationship)

hex value/rpm limit
F0H = 7500
E0H = 7000
D0H = 6500
C0H = 6000
B0H = 5500
A0H = 5000
90H = 4500
80H = 4000

in the stock eprom the rev limiter is set at F0 (7500rpm)
the bit before this is for if there is no/faulty ECTS, it is usually set at 5500rpm

*** checksum: ***
as far as i have seen there is no checksum nor has there been any side effects of making changes to the ECU, there are ways to calculate the checksum but theres no need for an explanation.

THE LAST WORD:
please know im not against MS i just believe in many probe applications its overkill and the car can run better on a well tuned stock ecu. it still needs the same amount of tuning/tweaking as anything else. sure you can eliminate the VAF, i can do a MAF conversion thats almost just as good (flow wise). the extra map points in MS just mean theres more points to tune, that does not make it better, you might gain 1whp for approx 200rpm but is that worth the extra effort? the way the standard map flows is detailed enough IMO and only things like coming onto boost or n2o injection would really benefit from a more detailed map as they can be tuned closer to the point of rapid change.

what do i know? well, not much to be honest, im an electronics tradesperson and tuning is only a hobby thats been needed in my group of friends (all running heavily modified high powered cars, especially in comparison to mine). if you have any further questions or i have missed something please feel free to PM me. if any information above is incorrect please let me know and i will fix it asap.

at one stage at a mass dyno i had the quick chance to take some fuel out of a map, my A/F ratio was approx 13:1 and by adjusting the fuel map by 2H i managed to get an extra 2wkw (3whp approx), thats as far as ive dyno tuned at present i will post more dyno tuning info when my car is completely ready for the dyno.

happy tuning people.
heres the stock DE fuel map:

KLDE 93
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 24
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2b 2b
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 32 32
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 35 35
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 2a 37 39
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 2c 38 3c
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2c 30 3b 43
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 26 2e 33 41 4f
36 36 37 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 31 37 48 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 20 20 2e 36 3e 4e 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b
36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b

thats 13x13, i believe MS is 16x16? (guess) and your right about needing to learn more to tune but with software setup correctly its a sinch.

one day when i dyno tine my car i will post before and after, begining with a DE ECU modified with stock KLZE maps (fuel/timing/vris) obviously going from the DE maps there will be much more to gain.

i cant post links of where to get emulators but i use a moates ostrich, which is cheap and excellent for what it is, the only downside is it does not have maptrace but to be honest i get by fine without it. (maptrace shows you the byted being read by the ECU live) so for example you can see exactly what point on the fuel map the ECU is looking at when ideling or at 7000@wot.

ill post it when i get home, theres lots of timing maps, ill post the three ones i play with.

ok timing maps are as follows:
located at 05BB-060E from memory

76 76 76 2B 2B 69 69
69 2B 2B 5C 5C 5C 2B
2B 8C 8C 8C 2B 2B 8C
8C 8C 2B 2B 5C 5C 5C
2B 2B 5C 5C 5C 2B 2B
5C 5C 5C 2B 2B 5C 5C
5C 2B 2B 44 44 44 2B
2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B
2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B
2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B
2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B
2B 22 1A 2B 2B 2B 1A

KL31 starts from 5baH

thats the coolant temp vc load which is a lookup kinda table for the two timing maps (for low and high octaine apparently) this is the main load vs rpm table from my gatherings:

55 7f 9f b5 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ef
70 a3 a7 b5 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ef
70 a3 a7 b0 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ed
70 83 95 9d ab b4 a6 b0 ba c7 c8 ca ce e7
63 70 86 8e 9b a7 9c a5 b0 be c1 c4 c7 e0
56 69 7e 85 92 9c 93 9e a9 b7 ba be c1 d8
4c 63 79 7f 8a 94 8f 9a a4 b1 b1 b8 bb d0
42 61 75 7d 86 8f 8b 97 a1 ac ab b2 b6 c8
38 5f 72 79 82 8d 8a 95 9f aa a8 ac b2 c0
2d 5b 70 77 81 8b 88 94 9d a6 a5 a6 ae ac
22 4f 60 72 7e 88 87 94 9c a0 a0 9e a2 98
22 4d 60 69 6f 84 84 92 92 99 9c 95 95 98
22 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 98
22 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 98
22 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 98

ill neaten all this up later into my original post when i get more time.

Thanks a lot Stoker100 for answer me.

So I'm working in a ship that I bought (KL07 for Probe 24v), and I see all you explain in the file, but..


Quote:
Originally Posted by stoker100
on the KL07 ECU the rev limiter is at address 6FH

hex value/rpm limit
F0H = 7500
E0H = 7000
D0H = 6500
C0H = 6000
B0H = 5500
A0H = 5000
90H = 4500
80H = 4000


Apparently in my ship, the rev limiter (at address 6FH so), is "F5", it's very strange ??
Tell me if I'm wrong.

ok if the formula is the same then F5 = 7656rpm which isnt too weird i guess. if you change it and take it for a drive you will find out (set it to 80H or something lower)

the setup on the right is just an idea for a usb i/o addition that allows you to read inputs from things like vris solenoids and switch things, currently on my car MSD is switched and i can use it as an immobilizer if need be (wouldnt change any maps or anything).
intorion
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #18 : 25.01.2011, 09:01 »

спасибо  ;) надеюсь ты найдёш ещё архивы  ;)
alfal
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #19 : 25.01.2011, 11:34 »

Это основной документ. Я двигал VRISы и ограничитель, в результате чего на 8300об/мин у меня стуканул мотор.  :music:
В итоге, меня вполне устроила стоковая прошивка KL31.bin, которую я тебе и выслал. Т.е. это самый идеальный компромисс между мощностю и расходом топлива :)
mazdax6
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #20 : 19.03.2011, 16:25 »

чистил EGR недавно, и человек, который мне его снимал, при установке назад перепутал вакуумные трубки. в связи с чем возник вопрос по vris. для наглядности прилеплю схему.
верхняя трубка solenoid valve purge control была заведена на клапан vris2. соответственно, верхняя трубка solenoid valve vris2 была заведена на место purge control - тобто должна была уходить на канистру с углем, но! :D  вдобавок ко всему этому были попутаны трубки на канистру и на возд.фильтр, поэтому верхняя трубка solenoid valve vris2 уходила вообще на корпус возд.фильтра  :dash:
однако :D  при этой "схеме" коммутации магистралей vris2 срабатывал в момент начала работы двигателя, и Вы говорили, что это правильно:

alfal от 31.07.2010,  16:49
Ты что русского языка не понимаешь или по форумам привык по десять раз одно и тоже слышать. Говорю. точнее пишу, правильно работает так и должно быть, блин, вот теперь достал.  :D
Блок КЛ 05 работает по такому алгоритму, для впусконого коллектора 626GE.  Ты задал правильный вопрос и получил короткий правильный ответ. :drinks:

а теперь, при подключении согласно схеме, при пуске двигателя vris2 не срабатывает. в чем "прикол"? :rma: у меня уже мозг начинает ломаться...

p.s. видимо, отсюда и растут ноги 17 и 24 ошибок?
alfal
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #21 : 19.03.2011, 19:10 »

Возможно, как вариант, но не факт :)
Эти ошибки могут жить и сами по себе, т.е причины могут быть совершенно различные. Это сродни повышенной температуре у больного. Вот причина болезни ...... ::)

Короче искать и никаких шансов 8)
mazdax6
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #22 : 19.03.2011, 21:18 »

спасибо  :D  а не срабатывающий vris2? на ХХ до 4 кручу - неа, не хочет. читал, что мудрую машинку так просто не проведешь и на ХХ она не открывает клапана. а как же узнать, что он работает? :)  по ошибкам ничего не изменилось...
intorion
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #23 : 19.03.2011, 22:29 »

хм, подыми её в воздух передними колёсами  ? :)
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #24 : 19.03.2011, 23:28 »

ну вариант, да. не додумался че-то  ::) мерси
alfal
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #25 : 20.03.2011, 09:30 »

Ты что с машиной творишь? :o
mazdax6
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #26 : 20.03.2011, 11:55 »

самодиагностика показала ошибку 46. проверка тестером показала, что отсутствует сопротивление между контактами вакуумника vris2. я временно перекинул vris2 на vris1 (т.к. почти не езжу выше 4200) и теперь имеем ошибку 41.
Mazster
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #27 : 28.07.2011, 16:42 »

Буду очен благодарен за краткое разьяснение методики по прошивке блоков. Специальньій компьютер? Програма? Кабель?
alfal
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Mazda VRIS (ВРИС)

« #28 : 28.07.2011, 18:08 »

Обычный программатор, флешпамять ПЗУ 64К и компьютер с программами редактирования бинарных файлов, собственно программа заливки, идёт с программатором
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« #29 : 29.07.2011, 19:40 »

Большое спасибо! :drinks: